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Gear Tips
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MR. SMITH GOES TO BOSTON
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An interview w/drummer, vocalist and Berklee Professor...
Mr. Diversity TONY “THUNDER” SMITH
As a teenager in the 70’s I was a big fan first of David Bowie and then early Punk. Both of these musical favorites led me directly to Lou Reed, both in his early days as leader of The Velvet Underground ( who were like the Beatles to the New Wave, Punk followers) and later with his solo records (yeah..I said a record, that’s right). I bought all of his Velvet Underground and solo stuff. My favorite solo record from the ‘70’s is Berlin, which I couldn’t listen to with the lights out, or with any kind of rain going on outside. (Berlin was recently done in it’s entirety in Berlin) My least favorite record is the double Metal Machine Music (though I have a Quadraphonic copy) which is hard to listen to in its entirety…period, though I haven’t tried in years.
When I realized a couple of years ago that Lou’s drummer since ’95, Tony “Thunder” Smith, had just started teaching at the Berklee School of Music I resisted acting like a teenage schoolgirl (ie. “What’s Lou like? Do you guys hang out? What’s his favorite color?”). Instead I got to know Tony. I realized that not only was he a nice guy but that he had played drums and sang with a lot of very diverse bands on many records that I knew. His playing with the Jan Hammer Group and The Jan Hammer Group w/Jeff Beck is a great example of early fusion drumming. He also played with the legendary John McLaughlin, after the Mahavishnu Orchestra broke up, on a couple of jazz records. Refusing to get pigeon-holed, he expanded his horizons and went from those to playing with French poet, singer abd songwriter Serge Gainsbourg. In the late ‘80’s Gainsbourg, who was like a father figure to Tony , was like a French Frank Sinatra. He did what he believed, sometimes gaining negative press( there is an “incident “ involving a young Whitney Houston and Gainsbourg on a French TV Show, now showing on YOUTUBE),and Tony got some great experience gigging and touring with a legend from another country. Gainsbourg sadly died in 1991. Tony has also recorded with Santana, Carlos Alomar ( former Bowie guitaristA), and Nina Hagen (German “ New Wave” singer), to name a few.
I was lucky enough to sit down recently for an interview with Tony with a recorder, some questions and a cup of coffee. I thought the interview might take a half an hour. I realized (after the recorder had shut off because the SD Card was full) that the almost two hours that we spoke didn’t even scratch the surface of Tony’s musical life. I learned that as a youngster growing up in the Height Asbury section of San Francisco, a young cocky Tony jammed with everybody, including early members of Santana, and at 14 sat in with Blues great Albert Collins( who proceeded to take his sticks and tell him to go home and practice..which he did). I learned that Tony played for President Clinton and danced with the First Family. I learned that Tony lived just blocks from John Lennon in New York and was nearby and heard shots the night of his death. I learned the strange circumstances behind his getting the Lou Reed gig. Mostly though, I learned how talent and hard work combined with networking, versatility, loyalty, and preparation (“going for it”) can lead to a successful musical career.. Here is the interview. The parts that I missed because the recorder was off I will write from memory.
MT-“Tony, what got you interested in playing music drums? Do you come from a musical family? What was your first kit?
Tony-“ My grandmother lived in Northern California so I would go down on vacation to Stockton Ca, to visit. My grandmother played piano in the church and my grandfather was a pastor and played trombone. I was heavily into music, because I would stay with them most of the time. I was into rhythm and listening to different rhythms, the rhythms of life. I would start to beat on things because I liked to mimic. Plus, my father is a trumpet player. I played trumpet in school, first because there was a ton of drummers and my dad played trumpet. In Junior High School I said, “Now I wanna play drums”. I worked out a deal w/my mother to buy a drumset. She was hesitant, said she’d buy me the drum set but I had to pay money every month till it was paid off. I can remember the kit. It was a Crest ( hmmm toothpaste and drums?..MT) drumset. I would take them over to friend’s houses and we would jam. It was the cheapest set ever and I beat them to death. Spurs and other parts from the kit started breaking, so when I was in the 9th grade I asked my father (parents were divorced) if he would buy me a set, cause my mother had bought the last kit. He did with the same deal, that I would pay him back by getting a job or whatever I had to do. It was a beautiful Gretsch kit which I kept for a long time until I sold it to one of my students He also said that I had to take lessons, so .I took lessons at a drum shop in San Francisco where they tried to teach me rudiments. I was opposed ‘cause I wanted to learn to play a beat. They insisted. I stuck with lessons for maybe 3 weeks. If they would have taught me the value of reading instead of trying to memorize rudiments that might have been better in the long run. I was a kid and unfocused. Many years later I did find a good teacher, though.
MT- “How did that lead up to your early gigs?”
Tony-“Well, I would look at people and try and hang out. As a kid in the late ‘60’s and 70’s you could. In the Haight Asbury section of San Fran you could be playing in your little garage band and the guitar player for Sly and The Family Stone would come in ‘cause he knows the organ player, and show you Dance To The Music and his new red Porsche. Kids loved that. We figured we wanted to do music ‘cause you could make money. You jam with everybody in everybody’s garage or living room. You could also walk around and see people playing in the streets and in the park. You could jam with lots of people. The more I did that in high school, the more competent I was because I had a good ear. I got better and better. I could play rock and I could play James Brown and Sly. I played with Albert Collins in a blues club at 14, and he turned around and said “Son, let me see your sticks”. I thought he must dig me. Then he said “Son I think you need to go home and practice”. This was good thing for me, though at the time I felt like poop. I ran home and said I’ll show him. I started playing with everybody like a maniac. I practiced with headphones to records and at 16 started doing gigs across the bay. I started running into Jefferson Airplane and Buddy Miles .I met Michael Shrieve and Neal Schon and started networking. I didn’t know what it was called, I was just doing it. I played with Papa John Creach (Jefferson Airplane) during that period. I didn’t know anything, I just counted it off and played .This led to playing with Santana on the Welcome record. A friend of mine who was on bass asked if I wanted to see what it looked like in a real recording studio. I came in and he told me to sit down on the drums. This was Michael Shrieve’s kit! I had just turned 17. We start playing this groove. Then Santana’s keyboard player came in and started playing and guitarist came in. Then I see this red light and hear this voice. I wasn’t sure what it was but assumed it was a control room. The voice said to do it again. So we did the same song again. It was cool...groovin’ We finished and the voice said that it was great and we had got it. I thought then that I better leave. The band is here and sitting on Michael Shrieve’s drum set. So I got up. They were wondering what was going on, why I was leaving. Michael Shrieve showed up, so I was gone. Two weeks later, I get a call to come down to the studio to pick up my check. I said “For what?” They said that I had done a session for Carlos Santana’s record. I said, “What’s a session?” They explained that I had done a recording and said “What did think you were in the studio for?” I thought that I was just there to jam. I picked up the check, and said “Holy Crap, I just got paid for what I love”. If you can get paid for what you love that is the best thing in the world, and I realized than the I could do that. I had heard people complaining about their jobs my whole life up till then. That session, plus the fact that I could also do lead vocals, led to other sessions. I’m a kid and I started hearing inside tracks.”
MT- “Ball players all have their “Welcome to the Majors” moments. It could be playing at Fenway Park for the 1st time in front of a sold out crowd, or getting their first homerun. What was your “Welcome to the Majors” moment?”
Tony-“Jorge Santana, Carlos’ brother, was in a band called Malo. They had a hit w/Suava Cito and were auditioning drummers. They had a cattle call of 50 drummers waiting to audition. I was an arrogant kid. I told their manager when they were done to give me a call. There were like, “Who is this guy - a friend of a friend?” I gave them my number. They called me and I auditioned. I started playing and there was an instant mesh and they offered me the gig. Malo led me to the East Coast when I was 17. We did a gig at Shea Stadium headlining a big Latin Music Festival. This was the firstt gig I did in NY. It had rained for 2 days and they had tarps on the field. The lead singer, Arsilio, in the moment said “Everybody come on down”. Everybody jumped fences and were on the field. The cops surrounded the stage and got us off the stage. This was my first time in NY, and I had conned my mom into letting me come. I thought that we were going to be arrested and I said I’d never come back. I ended up falling in love with New York, though, and making it my home on the East Coast. I did 3 records with Malo.
MT-“What happened after Malo?”
Tony-“After Malo I joined a band called Azteca, with Pete and a very young Sheila Escovedo. Sheila, who would later be known as Sheila E, was like my little sister. moved I was already set up to go to college and play sports and do music in CA, but I couldn’t do it. The bass player from Santana notified me that the Mahavishnu Orchestra was breaking up. He knew Jerry Goodman and suggested that we make a tape and send it to Jan Hammer. Jan liked it and suggested wew get together and play to see if we would mesh. I was arrogant and had no fear. I asked for a ticket back to NY, and got it.I came and we played. It was happening. He was a drummer as well as a keyboard player and he really got me into odd time signatures. It was fun. He was a big influence. We recorded 4 records together between ’76 and ‘78, including the live one w/Jeff Beck, and did tons of touring. I learned a lot and use some things in my teaching now. I got other offers to play during time off from Jan, like the Brecker Bros., with Will Lee and David Sanborn. Harvey Mason had played on the most recent Brecker Bros. album, and they had asked me to go on the road with them. Unfortunately I couldn’t because I was loyal to Jan Hammer. Around this time Jeff Beck came to see the Jan Hammer Group in Ithica, NY. He was going to invite us to open for him on his tour. Instead, he thought it would better served if he played with the group. We went out and recorded a live record ( I sold tons of this record in my teen years working at a record shop in Delaware…tons..MT) This was very early rock fusion. Networking back then was really a trip as you always got to better yourself by playing with great musicians. I was still a kid back then and felt invincible. I could juggle gigs and do record after record after record always moving into another league. It got tougher to balance things as the stakes got higher. There was also always the loyalty thing”
MT-“Were you still playing the Gretsch kit then?”
Tony-“I got a different Gretsch kit at some point, a brown Mahogany stained one, and then switched to Tama when I joined John McLaughlin. Billy Cobham had played Tama with McLaughlin in The Mahavishnu Orchestra. This was my 1st endorsement kit. I played Tama with Stacy Lattisaw , this 13 year old singer on Atlantic, back then as well. Narada’s Michael Walden had produced the record. We put a touring band together. TM Stevens was the bassist. We opened up 54 dates for the Jackson Five and we played Madison Square Garden 4 times. This was right before the Michael Jackson album, Thriller. It was tough getting Tama on the road back then when we needed to backline. Jonathan “ Sugarfoot” Moffat was The Jackson’s drummer back then. I used to sit at the side of the stage every night absorbing and learning things from him.
MT-“What came next?”
Tony-“After the John McLaughlin gig (’78-’79, 2 records) which involved a lot of touring in Europe, Australia and South America, came the David Sanborn gig. After that I got a call from bassist T.M. Stevens whom I had known for awhile and done the Stacy Lattisaw gig with, and he told me about his audition with French singer Serge Gainsbourg. I had learned the music beforehand, because I heard it from T.M Stevens’ rehearsal space and he had made me a cassette copy. The day he was supposed to audition the drummer never showed, so he gave me a call and told me to get down there for the audition and we could audition together. We had played together for so long that we locked as a rhythm section already. The guitar player who was the musical director offered us the gig. Serge Gainsbourg was an amazing entertainer and like a g-d in Europe. He could stop traffic by walking down the middle of the street. Women asked him to autograph different body parts. He had like 500 songs done by different artists. They still release box sets, even though he passed away in ’91. He was like a father figure to me on a regular basis. I pulled along on his coat tails. It was a great learning experience. After T.M. Stevens left to play with Joe Cocker I helped get John K the bass gig. He had been playing with Cindy Lauper. I played with Serge from on 3 records from ’87-’89. After that I had heard that German singer Nina Hagen was looking to put together an American band to support a recent US release. We put together a band w/John K, me and two other guys. Then we went over to Germany. I was used to recording in the US and touring in Europe with Serge Gainsbourg six months of the year anyhow. Nina was amazingly talented, popular in Germany though pretty much unknown in the US. It was great touring and recording with her. She is now doing some sort of American Idol type program in Germany
This is the point in the program where the recorder ran out, before I noticed it and changed the SD card. I am going to fill in this are from memory.
After playing with Nina Hagen, Tony continued to do many sessions. He was spending a great amount of time between Boston, where his wife is from, and New York. One of the sessions he had done was in ’95 on a CD by Christine Lavin called Please Don’t Make Me Too Happy. He had played an electronic set-up on that session. The producer’s name was Steve Rosenthal. Tony was at a 4th of July party in Boston ’95 when he got a call from Steve Rosenthal, who was on a session involving electronic drums and remembered that Tony knew his way around them. He asked if Tony could come to New York to help. Tony said that he would, the next day. Rosenthal handed the phone to his client, who just happened to be Lou Reed. He said “Hi this is Lou Reed, I need you to come to New York now to help with this project. I’ll have a ticket waiting for you at the airport (Logan) and a driver to pick you up in New York and bring you to the studio.” This was Tony’s first ever encounter with Lou. Tony again took advantage of the opportunity by immediately going to New York. When he walked into the studio he realized that Fernando Saunders was the bass player. He had played with Fernando years before in Jan Hammer’s band. This had to be fate. Tony worked on the electronic kit for awhile and then they all jammed. He said that there was an immediate bond. He spoke with Lou Reed for awhile after they played, and was asked to join the band. They started working on what would be Tony’s first CD w/Lou, Set The Twilight Reeling, right away. Tony also had to learn a lot of Lou Reed’s back catalog as well. He “lived” with those recordings and made the drum parts his own. Tony has recorded five studio CD’S w/Lou and three live recordings. He also did the Rock and Roll Animal Special for PBS and has also toured all over the world, most recently in Europe.
I noticed the SD Card had run out at this point so I replaced it. More about his time with Lou Reed:
Tony-“ We did tons of stuff, toured for every record. We did The Raven, which was a two disc set and very cool. We had fun, saw amazing places around world. We went to a palace in the Czech Republic. We played at the White House. We met The President, and Hilary and Al and Tipper Gore. I was dancing in the same room with the President and Vice President after the gig. It was strange, but very cool.
MT-“You answered your phone at a 4th of July party and next thing you know you’re playing with Lou Reed for The President. I bet you’re glad that you took that call”
Tony-“Yeah, yeah, but see you never know. Your ears got to be open. Now means now.”
MT-“Is Lou a good boss?”
Tony-“Yes, he’s great. He knows exactly what he wants and it’s not a waste of time. There’s a lot of exploring. He’ll say things like “that was yesterday, but here is where I want to go today”. It’s cool.”
MT-“Does he send rough demos of songs for you to learn?”
Tony-“It works better when we’re all together because we feed off each other. We can’t do a rehearsal without Lou, forget it, it’s a disaster. Lou has such a unique unusual rhythm in his voice. For thirteen years we’ve tried to mimic him in rehearsal, and we can’t. One of the band will think that they can sing a certain song, but it’s nowhere near Lou’s vocal styling. It’s from another planet, it’s so amazing and you can’t duplicate it”.
MT-“Berlin is my favorite record. You didn’t play on that one, but recently performed the entire album overseas. How did you prepare for that?”
Tony-“There were three drummers on that record, so I had to be three drummers and myself. I had to listen to that album and dissect it continually. That’s what I would do anyway. When I play with someone, I listen to their music only, day and night, until I get it. What I want to do is have it come out of me organically. I don’t want to just mimic fills. I did that early in my career. If you can play it organically, then it’s you, but you have to learn the arrangements. You have to center in where the pocket is and then enter your own vocabulary.
MT-“ What led you to come to Berklee to teach?”
Tony-“ I had always wanted to teach at Berklee, but didn’t have the opportunity. My cousin went to Berklee years ago and he told me that they did a class on me. I thought that he was kidding. They went over music I recorded and my style. I was like, “Wow, there going over me at Berklee”. I played Berklee w/Jan Hammer and thought it was cool there. I was teaching private lessons in New York, but never thought that I could teach at Berklee. Then in 2004, I was on tour and came through Boston. We were renovating my mother-in-law’s house in Boston, and I stopped by the house to see how the workers were doing. I called Kenwood Dennard (great drummer, Berklee Prof) to see how he was doing. We’ve been buds for like 30 years. He told me to go on the Internet at Berklee.com to look under employment. I did that. There was an add looking for drum teachers. He told me to call him back after I read it. I did and Kenwood said “Does that sound like you?”(rhetorical question). He said “Of course it does.” Kenwood told me to put together a package and that he would get a meeting w/Dean Anderson the next day and that we’d discuss me coming to work at Berklee. My stuff was all over the place. He kept repeating that I needed to put a package together and meet tomorrow. Kenwood gave me one letter of recommendation and I got another from an old teacher/mentor of mine. I decided to do it. It was getting late in the day and I needed to go to a record store and find some things that I played on. I went to this used shop on Newbury Street and. I found a bunch of stuff that I played on at a great price…John McLaughlin, Jan Hammer etc., and bought them. I went to Starbucks and made a sample disc from the best cuts from all of them. Now I had two letters of recommendation and a “greatest hits” disc. I needed a cover. I went over to Kinkos and had them shrink down six CD covers to one page. My bio was on my web-site so I printed that and added to my package. The next day I had a meeting w/Kenwood and Dean Anderson. The interview went well. There were a couple hundred applicants which got whittled down to six. I came in and did my presentation. I got a call a little while later as I was getting ready to go on the road, that I got the job. I was nervous and floored at the same time. My first year I was at school all the time, trying to figure everything out. I’ve been at Berklee now since Sept. of ‘04.
MT-“Do you like teaching? Have you had to refine your methods as you’ve gone along?”
Tony-“ I love it. Teaching is the best! You have to break things down all the time to a level of real understanding. You can’t be just like here it is, now do it. I teach how you apply and connect different rhythms and how you can apply them to music. That’s the key. Kids want to know after they get out of Berklee how to make it work. It’s not so much what I teach them, but what they’re going to do with it. What I try to teach them is what they will need to be able to play in any direction and musical specification. Why? Because I did it and it’s worked. I try and give them life’s experiences as well. At first,t because I’ve done so much, I wanted to give my students the kitchen sink. It was overwhelming and the kids were getting stressed. Some of my students and faculty members helped me to pull back a bit. You can have a lot of chops, but you have to be grounded too. I tell my students if you want to be a drummer for life then you have to use your drumming vocabulary in the right place. In other words, if you learn a new groove today, it may not be useful in your gig that night. It’s important though to have as much in your back pocket as possible that you can pull out when needed. You’ll be more versatile that way. You’ll get the “Wow”, instead of the “Ugh” for putting stuff in the right spots. You have to use discrimination. In order for you to truly shine the band has to shine as well. You work as a unit. You also have to be humble.
MT-“You’ve been fortunate that you’ve loved and learned from all your gigs”
Tony-“You have to. I’ve been touring for so many years. You want to make it fun, comfortable and enjoyable. Being in a band on tour should be like family.You have to have fun, and make that child in you continue discovering new things. Without fun, it’s nothing. I’ve known musicians who made a lot of money, but were miserable. Some of them are now gone to another world. They left this world with money, but also misery.
MT-“Any favorite recording situations?”
Tony-“ Years ago I recorded at Levon Helm’s (drummer/ vocalist for The Band, Bob Dylan etc.) home studio in upstate New York. That was really cool and a lot of fun, hanging out with Levon. I’ve been fortunate as I try and leave myself open for anything. You never know what’s gonna happen through things. If you say no a lot to sessions, you can miss out on a lot. Everything is worth your time. I’ll usually say, “Sure I’ll do it”. You can always leave a session if it doesn’t work out. You’re not stuck anywhere so therefore it becomes an adventure.
MT-“ You’ve been playing and endorsing Paiste Cymbals for nearly 30 years. That’s pretty cool. Why is that?”
Tony-“ I’ve played Paiste since 1976. That’s my sound. I love them. I tell my students who ask me about endorsements to play and find your sound. Don’t worry about endorsements. YOUR sound is more important to the big picture. Paiste is working on an idea for a special ride for me. It’s just an idea, it’s a cool idea, but we’ll see.
MT-“How many kits do you have right now?”
Tony-“I sold my Gretsch kit to a student who was deserving years ago. I sold my Tama kit to another student at a great price. I don’t stockpile drum sets. I have the kit from Pearl that I got when I signed with them, which is in my studio. I have a couple of separate smaller bass drums, a kit in my storage loft and a small kit w/an 18” kick in my studio. I don’t need to stockpile kits ‘cause I use what I use. Cymbals and snare drums are a different story. There are certain cymbals that I might use just for recording and certain cymbals I might use for a jazz gig, certain ones that I’ll use for a rock gig, etc. I have a lot of different snare drums. My whole thing from playing is snare and kick sound. If I get a great snare and kick sound combined with my cymbals, I’m all set”
MT-“Well, we’re all set too. Thanks a lot Tony, I learned a lot”
Check out Tony’s web-site at www.tonythundersmith.com
John Blackwell(Cameo, Patti LaBelle, Prince, Justin Timberlake) will be doing a clinic at the Boston Store on Thurs. 3/27. Tickets are on sale NOW, and there are a limited number of seats available. Get you tix now at any Daddy’s location, or on-line. It’s gonna be great!
We are over the Patriot’s defeat in the Super Bowl now (NOT!) and Spring Training has just started for the Sox. Don’t forget the season the Celtics are having.( fingers crossed).
Till Next Time, Keep Rockin’ - MT
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Michael Tocker is the Percussion Specialist for Daddy's Junky Music.
Mike is a 15 year industry veteran and long-time fixture on the Boston music scene as a gigging drummer and recording artist.
Michael can be reached at Daddy's Boston at (617) 247-0909.
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